Best Helium Inflation??

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • BalloonBoyUK
    Banned
    • Dec 2018
    • 500

    #16
    Re: Best Helium Inflation??

    Originally posted by LoonerPlanet
    On the other hand, a helium-filled GL1200 would displace a lot of air and should have decent lift. [SNIP] What I wonder is how long would it float. [SNIP] Still, in the interest of science and fun, filling a GL1200 (or any GL) with helium would be a cool experiment to try. Just get a really big tank of helium.
    You wouldn't need a huge tank of helium, but you would need a lot more than you realise. And any balloon, no matter what the size, will float - even a tiny, insignificant 5" balloon will float - though not for long (maybe 10-20 minutes, if you're lucky). Weather temperature also affects buoyancy too.

    An average-sized helium cylinder (that stands about 4ft in height, and has about 5 cubic metres worth of gas in it, and weighs about 25kg), would probably fill about ten x GL-1200's, give-or-take.

    Going by current costs (for me, at least), one such cylinder would cost about £175 to purchase (excluding the hire charges, but inclusive of most taxes), and that would equate to about £25's worth of helium per GL1200 filled.

    Seeing as the price of a GL1200 balloon, is about £7, you're looking at about £32 (give-or-take) to fill one GL1200 with helium! Add-in another £3 for treating it with Hi-Float, to keep it afloat for even longer, and you could have it stay floating, for over three months solid, with ease - as long as the room it was in didn't have too much variance in temperature, of course! (I've had 36" Qualatex rounds, treated with Hi-Float, and filled with helium, stay afloat for two months, with ease!)

    Yes, it would definitely be fun, but also an extremely expensive science project - £35 for one GL1200! Now, all you'd need is a room big-enough to store it in...

    ...but that'll probably set you back a few hundreds of pounds/dollars! LOL

    Comment

    • BalloonBoyUK
      Banned
      • Dec 2018
      • 500

      #17
      Re: Best Helium Inflation??

      Originally posted by TooBigToFail
      I meant to say that it would be stuffed with helium 24s. That way, even if it pops, you'd have recoverable balloons for further fun instead of losing all your helium.
      Even if you filled it with 24" Qualatex's, you wouldn't get enough of them inside the GL1200, to make it float much. You'd get (at the very most) ten x 24" Qualatex round balloons in it, if you were very, very lucky, but even if you filled them with helium, the weight would be too heavy to make it float much, compared to just having the GL1200 filled with helium on its own. Don't forget, balloons inside balloons don't sit together nicely. There'd be unused space, that would be wasted, and so, you'd need to fill that space up with helium as well.

      The more balloons you add, the heavier the whole weight will be.

      Do a test: get a 16", 18", 24" or 36" balloon, and see how many 5" air-filled balloons you can fit in them. You'll soon discover how few will go in! And that's before you even deal with things like the pressure all of these little balloons will have, on the main, outer balloon!

      That's why balloon-stuffing machines never really took-off (no pun intended) for balloon decorators: they were too problematic, and prone to bursting the outer balloon way too easily. Hence, why you generally only see them with three or four small-ish balloons inside a 24" balloon, otherwise it just looks messy, and increases the risk of the 24" balloon bursting easily.

      Comment

      • PBK
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2019
        • 372

        #18
        Re: Best Helium Inflation??

        I have my own Helium tank. Industrial/Commercial size. It lasts 6 months or so then I exchange it.
        Usually we fill TufTex/Qtex 17's, Tuftex 24's, Party City 24's and 36" balloons with it. Occasionally QTex 11's and and TufTex 14's get blown up, too. We keep balloon bouquets of various color and size combinations around and when the balloons start to "droop" they get deflated and thrown away. Hi-Float is a helium enthusiast's best friend!

        Comment

        • Helium1234
          Member
          • Dec 2016
          • 43

          #19
          Re: Best Helium Inflation??

          I cant say I've played with high float, but curious . Can you re-use a high float treated balloon? How long would a 24" last?

          Comment

          • BalloonBoyUK
            Banned
            • Dec 2018
            • 500

            #20
            Re: Best Helium Inflation??

            Originally posted by Helium1234
            I cant say I've played with high float, but curious . Can you re-use a high float treated balloon? How long would a 24" last?
            1) Once you've Hi-Floated a balloon you can't re-use it. Hi-Float is a gel/glue-lilke substance, that coats the inside of the balloon, to prevent the helium (or air) from leeking out. As such, once it dries, it tends to be very messy. It's either still slightly gooey (even weeks/months after it's been inside of a balloon), or it dries out, and sticks to the balloon, and is a nightmare to remove - to the point that it's just not worth trying to do it. The time and the hassle it involves, versus the cost of the balloon, makes it pointless. Better to just discard it.

            2) A well-coated 24" Qualatex, properly treated with Hi-Float, that's been correctly spread-out over all of the inside, and then correctly inflated with helium, could last 4-6 weeks!

            I've had 3ft/36" round Qualatex balloons that I've Hi-Floated, and then filled with helium stay afloat for 4 or 5 months!

            Hi-Float is pricey, but if used properly, is a God-send for balloon-fetishists. Just remember, that you must use it correctly, and rememeber that you won't be able to salvage the balloon afterwards for reuse. As long as you bear that in mind, it's worth every penny/cent, and I would personally highly recommend every balloon-fetishist/looner has some, and uses it! Anything that extends the life of a helium balloon, is worth it!

            The following YouTube clips will help:

            The Basics of using Hi-Float
            Instructions for using HI-FLOAT to prolong floating life of latex balloons.


            Using Hi-Float on Big Balloons:


            Using Hi-Float with Helium:
            video, sharing, camera phone, video phone, free, upload


            Hope they all help!
            Last edited by BalloonBoyUK; 03-04-2019, 19:05.

            Comment

            • PBK
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2019
              • 372

              #21
              Re: Best Helium Inflation??

              I have 4 helium filled and Hi Float treated 36" Qualatex's that were inflated and put outside for Halloween and are still floating strong almost 6 months later.
              A Party City or a Tuf-Tex 24" will last 2-3 months.
              A Tuf-Tex 17" will last a month to a month and a half
              Qualatex/BSA/Partymate 17's last about 4 months on average. Heck, the black Qualatex 17's we inflated for Halloween are still going strong while the Halloween printed Tuf Tex orange and white 17's sank by Christmas.
              Hi Float, in my mind, is the greatest balloon invention ever. At least for us Helium enthusiasts. I remember as a kid getting a helium balloon from somewhere and being dismayed when a day later it was on the floor.
              The disadvantage, as BalloonBoyUK mentioned, is the balloon, when done, has to be discarded as the goop solidifies and takes hold to the inside of the balloon and the balloon cannot be re-inflated. I found this out the hard way when I got ahold of a printed 36" from a car dealership and tried to blow it back up. It got the size of a basketball and POOF. The only other big downside to Hi Float is if you fill the balloon up nice and big and full like my wife does and it happens to pop (rarely ever with Tuf Tex, but it happens) you've not only wasted that balloon, helium and Hi Float but it makes a colossal mess.
              Now, if they only could make an inert, non-toxic, inexpensive lifting gas to replace helium.....we would be set!

              Comment

              • BalloonBoyUK
                Banned
                • Dec 2018
                • 500

                #22
                Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                Originally posted by PBK
                The only other big downside to Hi Float is if you fill the balloon up nice and big and full like my wife does and it happens to pop (rarely ever with Tuf Tex, but it happens) you've not only wasted that balloon, helium and Hi Float but it makes a colossal mess.
                Well, actually, the issue isn't even if it gets nice-and-big. It's filling any balloon with helium (and/or Hi-Float) and it pops, it's a waste of gas, and yes, Hi-Float will spatter everywhere if it's inside a balloon that's being inflated with helium and it pops.

                The solution, is this:

                1) Never overinflate balloons using helium,
                2) Always fill balloons with helium slowly, and
                3) If you plan on using helium and Hi-Float , pre-inflate the balloon with air BEFORE you do anything else, especially on anything over a 11"-12" balloon. Blow it up with air to about 50% of its inteneded size; check it over for any potential damage, or weak spots. If in doubt, then put it to one side, and try again with another balloon. If the balloon is okay, fill it with air to its intended size. Then, deflate it slowly, and only at this point should you then treat it with Hi-Float and helium.

                Pre-stretching any balloon with air, helps the Hi-Float coat the entire inside of the balloon, and also results in fewer poppings, as it's been pre-stretched by the air. Any popping, as has been pointed out, is saddening and expensive. Obviously, you can't guarantee a balloon won't pop, but you can certainly reduce your chances of wasting the gas, and the Hi-Float to an absolute minimum.

                This is why you should never just take a balloon, add Hi-Float, and start filling it up with helium. If it pops, it's an expensive way of doing things. Minimise the risks, and you'll thank yourself in the long-run.

                Comment

                • PBK
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2019
                  • 372

                  #23
                  Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                  Yes, that's all sage advice.
                  Additionally, I emphasize using newer balloons and quality brands. No dollar store balloons for us. Qualatex, Tuf-Tex, Cattex and Unique are virtually the only brands we fill with helium. Anything else or anything over 2 years old gets relegated to the "air only" bin.
                  Our track record is pretty good. We've only had 3 unexpected pops in 3 years of filling with helium. And we fill a LOT of balloons with helium (300 cubic foot commercial size cylinders about every 3-4 months. Mostly Tuftex 17's. There's always a lot of helium balloons bobbing about the house). I know it sounds like we use an unbelievable amount of helium for personal enjoyment. However, the earth is running out and I want to enjoy it while we still can. There is going to be a time in the not so distant future when helium will be completely unavailable for balloon use as the precious little bit left of it will be dedicated to scientific/medical/industrial use. There's already calls for this action from scientists. Helium prices have gone up substantially in just the last 10 years and several gas suppliers locally have stopped selling it for balloon use (Praxair, for one). Several dollar stores and flower shops have stopped selling helium balloons or offering to fill balloons with helium.

                  It is what it is, I guess.
                  There's always hydrogen...….

                  Comment

                  • BalloonBoyUK
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2018
                    • 500

                    #24
                    Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                    Originally posted by PBK
                    However, the earth is running out and I want to enjoy it while we still can. There is going to be a time in the not so distant future when helium will be completely unavailable for balloon use as the precious little bit left of it will be dedicated to scientific/medical/industrial use.
                    1) With absolutely NO disrespect intended, you, I and all of us currently on this Forum, will all be six-foot-underground, or burned-to-a-crisp, before helium depletes from the Earth, to such a stage that it is no longer financially or morally acceptable to use it for balloons.

                    2) Secondly, from my understanding (so please don't shoot me down for this) the one thing most helium users DON'T realise, is that the helium used for balloons and is sold/rented out as "balloon gas" or "helium for balloon usage", is actually the waste-part of helium that has been syphoned-off for not being pure-enough to use for science, medicine and industrial use. It's one of those annomallys, where everyone complains that helium is being "wasted", but the helium used for balloons, is already a "waste" product, as it's not of sufficient quality to be used for anything else.

                    So, when people complain that helium is being wasted on helium balloons, just remind them of that small nugget of info, next time.

                    It's akin to saying: "I use shredded paper, as bedding", and someone telling you that it's a waste of paper. If the paper is already shredded, and can't be used for something more purposeful, then by the very definition, the fact you may reuse it as bedding for a pet, isn't wasteful. It's recycling.

                    That's what the helium is for helium balloons. It's recycling the waste helium that comes from the pure-helium that science, medicine and industry can't use anyway.

                    Comment

                    • PBK
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2019
                      • 372

                      #25
                      Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                      You're on a pretty good tear, today, aren't you?
                      Is the helium shortage just industry scare tactics to drive up prices? Maybe. We do, mankind ("people-kind" according to our Prime Minister), use a hell of a lot of it. Most of it is for scientific/research purposes. We are using far more than they're extracting. The only thing saving us is they keep finding huge reserves in new formations. These will eventually deplete.
                      Working in the industry, and presently working on a related project as a project engineer I can tell you first hand that work is presently underway to upgrade present helium extraction facilities to "re-run" or reprocess the off-spec helium that they normally sell as "balloon gas" therefore purifying it to the level of purity demanded by science/medicine.
                      Once these projects are complete, a large percentage of the off-spec helium will be redirected to reprocessing for higher purity. This has become financially viable and IS happening right now. There will still be helium relegated to the balloon market for a long time to come, as lots of people have pretty deep pockets and will make it happen, but it might drive the price of "balloon-grade" helium to the point of where I won't be able to afford it for my personal enjoyment anyore. The helium balloon market isn't going to disappear overnight, but unless you're 90 with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, it will happen sooner than
                      you, I and all of us currently on this Forum, will all be six-foot-underground, or burned-to-a-crisp

                      Comment

                      • BalloonBoyUK
                        Banned
                        • Dec 2018
                        • 500

                        #26
                        Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                        Originally posted by PBK
                        You're on a pretty good tear, today, aren't you?
                        Am I? I just thought I was posting on an internet forum, a reasoned response with reasonable information.


                        Originally posted by PBK
                        We do, mankind ("people-kind" according to our Prime Minister), use a hell of a lot of it. Most of it is for scientific/research purposes. We are using far more than they're extracting. The only thing saving us is they keep finding huge reserves in new formations. These will eventually deplete.
                        I don't disagree with that, one iota.


                        Originally posted by PBK
                        Working in the industry, and presently working on a related project as a project engineer I can tell you first hand that work is presently underway to upgrade present helium extraction facilities to "re-run" or reprocess the off-spec helium that they normally sell as "balloon gas" therefore purifying it to the level of purity demanded by science/medicine.
                        Once these projects are complete, a large percentage of the off-spec helium will be redirected to reprocessing for higher purity. This has become financially viable and IS happening right now.
                        That I wasn't aware of, but I genuinely Thank You for the info.


                        Originally posted by PBK
                        There will still be helium relegated to the balloon market for a long time to come, as lots of people have pretty deep pockets and will make it happen, but it might drive the price of "balloon-grade" helium to the point of where I won't be able to afford it for my personal enjoyment anyore. The helium balloon market isn't going to disappear overnight, but unless you're 90 with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, it will happen sooner than
                        Again, none of that I disagree with. But a lot of the press/media want the public to think that ALL balloon helium usage is wrong (morally and ethically), which it isn't, and they tend to also assume/infer that by using helium for balloons, that's helium that isn't being used by medicine, industry, engineering et al, and thus balloon-fans are denying those industries of a much-needed, higher-purpose product - which we aren't. We are using the waste product, that they they currently can't use, but as you have stated, will eventually be able to do so in the future, at some stage.

                        But we're certainly not stopping medicine, industry and engineering from using the helium, which is what many want society to belive. Therein lies the difference.

                        That said, it could be argued, that humans as a race waste lots of natural resources. It could be argued that any use of a finite product is wrong. It could be argued that all natural resources should/could only go to those who really need it. The crux of that problem is deciding who deserves it. More water is wasted through leaking pipes, by the UK water industry, than is wasted by customers. Yet, it is always the customers who are blamed for wasting water, and told "You need to cut back. Use showers, not baths", etc, etc.

                        If I'm paying for the water, then I am entitled to use it reasonably, in whatever way I wish. Ditto with helium. As long as I am not wasting it, or abusing it, then in my view, I am doing nothing wrong. I think you and I are more on the same page, than we both may think we are.

                        Comment

                        • PBK
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2019
                          • 372

                          #27
                          Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                          Originally posted by BalloonBoyUK
                          Again, none of that I disagree with. But a lot of the press/media want the public to think that ALL balloon helium usage is wrong (morally and ethically), which it isn't, and they tend to also assume/infer that by using helium for balloons, that's helium that isn't being used by medicine, industry, engineering et al, and thus balloon-fans are denying those industries of a much-needed, higher-purpose product - which we aren't.
                          Well again, I think a lot of that is over-inflation (pardon the pun) from the media. A few talking head scientists and researchers get some air time and BOOM! The crisis is supremely exaggerated. Indeed, there are scientists that are calling for an end to helium being used as a lifting gas now. Today.
                          Maybe this is the conspiracy nut coming out in me, but supplies could be getting withheld to drive the prices up, too, under the story that helium is getting in far more short supply than it actually is. Who knows?

                          Certainly, helium availability is cyclic. There's times when it makes the local news that it is just unobtainable and businesses that normally sell helium balloons post signs saying they're out of helium and can't get it and there's other times like now when it seems to be readily available and everyone has it. At least one local gas distributor has stopped selling it to individuals and small businesses altogether. I've heard different stories about that one. The common story is helium price and availability, the other story I've heard from someone that works there is the corporation quietly adopted a policy against selling to individuals because of that dumbass that got arrested for tying a bunch of 6 foot helium balloons to a chair and flying in restricted airspace with the intent on parachuting into the Calgary Stampede. He bought 10s of thousands of cubic feet of helium under false pretenses to pull this off and the gas company got questioned about it so they just said "no more" helium to individuals. Rumors. Who knows? Anyway, I digress.

                          One thing that is consistent, is the price. It continues to climb and has not come down. Businesses like car dealerships and condos/rental buildings have gone to those vinyl "balloon bubble" things on sticks (that are more like a beachball than a balloon) to simulate colorful helium balloons but without the helium as it's just getting too expensive for commercial businesses to justify for a promotion. The other thing I've seen more use of in place of helium is latex balloons but on long sticks, again, to simulate flying balloons but using only air. All these things are signs of the times.

                          I will continue to buy helium in commercial cylinders (the 5 foot, 300 cu ft sizes) and enjoy it until it either becomes too expensive to purchase for my salary or I get cut off altogether. I will say this: God Bless the inventor of Hi-Float and I honestly don't know how I'd cope without it!

                          Comment

                          • Big Thud Joe
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2017
                            • 352

                            #28
                            Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                            Originally posted by PBK
                            Heck, the black Qualatex 17's we inflated for Halloween are still going strong

                            Man, would've love to be there with you guys when blowing those babies up, those black Q17s get me rawing when inflated for the first time. When new, they are absolute bliss, but literally after a day or so, the magic's gone.

                            Comment

                            • PBK
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2019
                              • 372

                              #29
                              Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                              Well if your imagination is good I'll be doing about 3 dozen of them later this week in a nice, big helium bunch. I have half a bag and it's getting close to the end of its "best before" date for helium.
                              I find black tends to degrade faster than other colors. I wonder why that is?

                              Comment

                              • PBK
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2019
                                • 372

                                #30
                                Re: Best Helium Inflation??

                                FYI:
                                h ttps://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/concerns-rising-over-global-helium-shortage/ar-BBVKPVL?ocid=spartandhp

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                😀
                                😂
                                🥰
                                😘
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😞
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎